In this episode, Steve Vargo interviews Nathan Hayes, discussing the challenges and strategies surrounding payroll and hiring in optometry practices. They explore the complexities of hiring decisions, balancing fear and logic, and the importance of having the right team members to drive growth. They also touch on practical advice for managing staff, the benefits of outsourcing tasks like bookkeeping, and the nuanced role of incentive bonuses. The conversation aims to provide clarity and actionable insights for practice owners navigating the current labor market.